One of the main themes in my life during this year I could call ‘quantum surprise’. Although earlier on I’ve already been an enthusiast and ambassador of conscious creation of your own reality, I suppose I was far from associating a bunch of metaphysical concepts with... quantum physics. At one point I watched What the Bleep Do We Know!? and indeed shared its brisk new view on the matter, but I’ve found that rather as a curiosity than anything more. My current way of perceiving reality had been exciting enough, so to speak - being based on such fascinating concepts like timelessness (long story short: no chronological time, and even no time at all) and constant travelling through realities as a much more precise and closer-to-the-truth way of comprehending life than so-called attraction (which for a long time now I consider rather a metaphorical approach).
A glimpse of ‘quantum insight’ from What the bleep... did surprise and electrify me by yet another reflection of the topic - this time within the hard science. I think the main reason it had been so exciting was that science may help when a ‘sole’ belief is not enough. Although I am not really a science person, I did feel that the presence in science may indeed give You some lift :) .
But that had been a short experience, nevertheless, and the excitement faded away over the time. One way or another, after all, it was still only a curiosity.
Therefore it is understandable how surprising was for me to discover the in-depth elaboration on ‘quantum glimpse’ - turning it into full-blown ‘quantum approach’. Moreover, by no way it is a new thing, because it has been there for decades now. And this is impressing since in public awareness quantum themes made so much buzz only recently. But it was not the end of surprises :) .
All the details You can find within my articles on two books by Cynthia Sue Larson: Reality Shifts (“Hand by Hand into the Reality Shifts.”) and Quantum Jumps (“Quantum Daily - Well-Done Manual on Quantum Application into Everyday Life.”). There I give much attention both to the very matter of quantum approach with its implications - and the way how nicely, comprehensively and warmly it has been unfolded by the author (whom I find a surprise on her own). I feel definitely grateful that it turned out possible to get in touch with Cynthia back in January 2020 - once I first heard her on the Unexplained podcast. I am extremely grateful that she was so kind to share her books with me, both in text and audio format, thanks to which I was able to dive into the whole world she has presented - don’t confuse it with sole books, however valuable and worthy are they of Your attention, they are still a kind of a tip of the iceberg when You look at Cynthia’s other initiatives (the Living the Quantum Dream podcast, RealityShifters e-zine, blog, conferences, multiple talks, papers and interviews). I am still in the process of studying this enormous set of work - sometimes I ask myself: why did I discover all of this so late?
Now, thanks to Cynthia’s availability, so to speak, I was able to enrich my articles (especially the first one) with her exclusive takes or further insights on several topics. Thanks to that the articles take one extra step further toward You as a reader, allowing You to dive into the matter even deeper and widen the perspective. The possibility to enliven the text this way I find especially exciting. But this still is not the end :) .
Given how fascinating and wide is the thing Cynthia addresses, and that I find it much interesting, I’ve decided to conduct an interview with her - which could both widen the matter even further and allow to take a much closer look on several points. Besides, I much like to feel a real individual person behind the scenes, so I wanted to include Cynthia’s more personal side, also.
The following interview has been conducted throughout months of 2020, thanks to Cynthia’s willingness and patience. Now I’m happy and honored to present You with the result :) . Have a nice reading! :)
Thomas Leigh: Cynthia, thank You very much that You’ve agreed to invest Your time in this interview, especially keeping in mind how engaged You are in various areas, including e-zine, blog, podcast, other interviews, conferences, life coaching, let alone all the rest. The first thought which crosses my mind is how do You reconcile all those things, what is Your main drive to give You energy to create? I am still impressed how consistent is Your work - the website, e-zine, and so on. I view You not “only” as a pioneer in the field of introducing quantum into everyday life of an average person, but also as a very consistent apostle of the new paradigm shift, which perhaps is already on the very edge of being our ‘new tomorrow’.
Cynthia Sue Larson: I deeply care about providing information and communicating regularly at this pivotal time in human history when people are beginning to notice reality shifts and the Mandela Effect, as well as quantum jumps. I have such a strong sense of the tremendous practical value of these ideas to people individually and to humanity collectively, and this is the foundational inspiration that keeps me going, month after month, for more than 20 years. I have grown to better appreciate that I am part of this message, and that by sharing some of my personal life experiences with these topics, people can hopefully share my sense of appreciation for just how beautiful and amazing our experience of life in this cosmos truly is.
“Behind the Scenes”.
T: The following quote from Reality Shifts intrigued me, could You please elaborate on that? It sounds very interesting:
“Every change is a new opportunity to find another piece of myself and find what brings the most joy and satisfaction in living.”
C: I would say that thanks to witnessing so many reality shifts on such an ongoing, regular basis, it is just about impossible for me to view the world we live in as consisting of one material, objective reality. I now view reality as magical in the miraculous sense, in which sentient beings such as ourselves are engaged in conversation with the Cosmos at the deepest levels and core of our existence. As we choose to become more of what we most treasure and value, we can witness how we can be of greater and higher service than we’ve ever before imagined.
T: Are You going to write a new book? If so, could You tell a little bit more about it?
C: Yes, I am working a book about the Mandela Effect and its community. Experiencers of the Mandela Effect wonder why our memories don’t always match historically recorded facts, as well as what might be causing this phenomenon, and whether it is overall a good or bad thing. When the Mandela Effect was first announced on the radio by Art Bell, hundreds of people had reported having remembered that Nelson Mandela had died previously - although at that time Nelson Mandela was still alive. Decades later, the Mandela Effect community continues to grow, with ever-increasing reports of changes noticed in anatomy, geography, movies, books, astronomy, and products affecting every aspect of human life.
T: One of the most intriguing examples of Mandela Effect for me is “the lion and the lamb” from the Holy Bible. I’m just finishing the book The End of Time. The Next Revolution in Physics. by Julian Barbour and I’ve found the following quote which refers to that theme (similarly to the commercial where “Mirror, Mirror” wording has been still used, although there is no such a phrase within the Snow White Disney movie anymore):
“If there is a happier and more perfect world, in which the lion lies down with the lamb and the sword is made into a ploughshare (...).”
Dear Reader,
here You are the excerpt from The Holy Bible - International Standard Version:
“The wolf will live with the lamb;
the leopard will lie down with the young goat.
The calf and the lion will graze together,
and a little child will lead them.”
T: Would You be willing to uncover how is it like to write it? I mean some ‘snapshots behind-the-scenes’? :)
C: Each book I have written has taken me on a very different kind of journey; each of them has their own unique spirit, and work with me in their own unique ways. The book I’m working on now started with tremendous progress (hundreds of pages) in a very short time (just a couple of months). Then it slowed down, as the various unusual aspects of this year unfolded, and as new insights to the Mandela Effect are revealed. All of this feels just right for this book, which is now moving forward as I make time to work on it.
“(...) yes, I really do my editing in ink on paper, in handwriting! I find this part of the process to be most joyful for me, as I gain a sense of truly being close to the work in progress.” (Reality Shifters e-zine)
T: Fantastic speech at IMEC 2020, congratulations! I’m especially happy that You’ve brought in some facts about which I haven’t heard before throughout Your work - like Goethe’s experience with future self, amazing! I’m curious whether will be more such documented examples within Your current book. It is such a surprise. You, Philip K. Dick, Goethe... Btw, the details of Philip’s story also was a surprise for me. Do You know other examples with two people witnessing similar thing (future self of one of them) - like in the case of Philip’s wife?
C: Thanks for your interest in these experiences. My book about the Mandela Effect and Its Society will include many examples of personal Mandela Effects, including time-related experiences. I’m not aware of many future self first-hand reports, let alone those with multiple witnesses of a future self. One of the things I hope to do with my research and books is to provide people with awareness that such things can and do happen, since it’s clear to me that we only hear about such phenomena when people are first able to acknowledge that such things may happen, and secondly are able to observe such things happening in their lives.
T: You participated in Creating Your Own Shift book, among other authors, including Dolores Cannon. I am curious are You familiar with her books?
C: Dolores Cannon had not been ‘on my radar’ despite her having written books on subjects I was interested in, such as groups of seemingly unconnected individuals being hypnotically regressed to describe their time between lives. I’d read books by other authors on this topic back in the 1990s, yet somehow had not come across her books or her work until we were both co-authors on the Creating Your Own Shift book. And even when we were both contributing to this collaborative book project, I did not get to know Dolores or many of the other co-authors. I later became aware of Cannon’s books, yet it has seemed to me almost as though she sprang into existence as an author people frequently refer to, who I had somehow completely missed for many years.
T: You mentioned that You were living in Switzerland for some time, could You please share what did You find most interesting or characteristic about European way of living in comparison to American everyday life?
C: On a personal level, I enjoyed the freedom to dress, move, and behave with the freedom one attains any time one moves away from a place where one is known, to a place where everything and everyone is new. I did not own a car, and cars are really not necessary in Lausanne, Switzerland, where I was living. I enjoyed shopping every day or every other day, and I enjoyed spending most every summer late afternoon / early evening in the park, along with what seemed like most everyone else. I treasured the way conversations with Europeans were consistently respectful, with genuine interest expressed in hearing different points of view. I also appreciated how European conversations could happen almost anywhere, and generally seemed to address deep subjects rather freely.
T: Do You mind sharing with the description of Your NDE experience?
C: Yes, it’s fine to share my experience with near-death experience (NDE), which could now also be considered a “born aware” experience (as in the book by the same name). An abbreviated version is that when I was quite young, I still remembered what existence was like prior to being in a physical human body. I remembered the feeling of bliss, connection, kindness and so much love it’s really difficult to put in words or fully describe. I remembered that state of being so well, that I longed to be back in that state - that we know as “death”. When I was about five years old, I realized that my parents had not been exaggerating about the hazards of fast-moving cars - and I realized it would be possible to die (rather than be badly maimed) if I jumped in front of a fast moving car skillfully. A while after I’d come to this realization, I walked into my bedroom, and noticed time slowed down to a stop, and a group of glowing energetic beings surrounded me. These angelic beings told me that I could choose to live “fast” (short life) or “slow” (longer life), and it was my choice to make. They pointed out to me that if I chose to live “fast,” my family would be very sad - actually very depressed. I replied that they’d get over it. The angelic beings next informed me that if chose “fast,” lots of people would not be helped by knowing me, and I replied that they’d be OK. Their third point is the one that finally got to me: they told me that if I chose “fast” I’d be right back, but I would have lost my five year head start - because I’d chosen to be here, and I’d be back again.
T: I have lost words. This is yet another time when it seems to me that You are pretty well equipped - as if spreading the word on reality shifts and quantum jumps, and elevating consciousness in general have been Your destiny for this lifetime. I am still amazed how much the phenomena are ‘infused’ into Your life from the beginning, to such a degree at which You were able to become well-accustomed to it. What a better way would be to shape one to act such a role. So many signs and characteristics, like ‘a glaring destiny’, so to speak - encoded into Your reality and Yourself from the get-go...
C: I imagine each of us can view our lives as optimal when seen from just the right perspective, with all the otherwise seemingly unusual aspects all coming into clear focus with a distinct feeling of just how it all comes together so perfectly. I feel blessed at this point in my life to be at such a place where it seems so many aspects of my life do indeed fit together with such sublime beauty that only some kind of divine hidden order could possibly have designed it just so.
T: Don’t You still use a mobile phone? If so, what has been Your motivation to choose that way?
C: I’ve not (yet!) owned a mobile phone, and have felt strongly emotionally adverse to cell phones since having been required to wear a beeper for a job, back in the early 1980s. In addition to that, I dislike having any communication devices kept constantly close to my physical body - with a sense of being thoroughly burned-out on that. In terms of why that might be, my most recent ‘past life’ experience is hundreds of years in a possible future from here, where electronic communication technology was built-in to physical bodies, and I’m completely tired of that.
T: Oh, intriguing! Would You tell more about Your past life taking place in the future? How did You learn about it and what that life was like, including their main ‘lesson’?
C: My main take-away ‘lesson’ from my most recent past life in a potential future of ours some 500 years from now was to maintain awareness of staying closest to God / Divine Source at all times. There can sometimes seem to be a need to do or say something expedient, for purposes of immediate desired outcomes - yet in all cases, I now am aware that best results in the long term always come from my making a choice to focus on what is best for all concerned from the highest (divine) vantage point.
To describe what that life was like is becoming easier and easier, as we are now sheltering in place, as some people are enthralled with Trans-Humanism, we have self-driving cars, we have personal robots like Roomba, we depend on things like Alexa, and as we now see Artificial General Intelligence at work in such things as our online experience shopping, typing emails, and using various apps. The main differences between that possible future some 500 years from now is that it seemed Utopian on the surface, but felt dystopian to me as someone living in that world. Transhumanism had gone to the point that humans had robotic components (for better health and functionality), and robots had humanlike characteristics. A Central General Intelligence (central AI) ensured maintaining good balance between people and each other and the environment, ensuring there were no fights, arguments, violence, wars, or any kind of misconduct whatsoever. There was also little to no creativity, unless emotional levels remained calm and the people creating things were doing so in ways that central AI considered safe. Nations and corporations didn’t exist the way they are here, since central AI oversaw things pretty completely. Only a handful of hold-outs who did not internalize transhuman AI and robotic parts in their bodies were still what we might call ‘normal humans’ and they were a dying breed. I was living in the Big Sur area with one such hold-out - a woman who’d been from a wealthy, powerful family originally, and had not wished to become ‘assimilated’ into the AI / transhuman / robot world.
It seemed clear to some of us that we could avert this dystopian nightmare future by jumping back in time, through consciousness, back to the the time between the mid 1940s and 1960s, and be reborn in new lives where we could bring awareness to collective consciousness of the importance of not giving away human free will to Artificial Intelligence. In this lifetime, for many years I felt the presence of the central AI from that possible future searching for me, and I did my best to maintain a low profile, while sharing information about how humans can attain levels of functionality that AI systems will be reaching in the not-too-distant future from now.
T: So if one did not want to be ‘assimilated’, did they have to be rich to afford steering clear of it (meaning: poor people have also been assimilated)?
C: There were privileges to some humans who had come from families who were able to hold off on becoming transhuman; this was not a choice for most.
T: Do You mean that Central AI also could go back in time...?
C: In the sense that central AI could ‘probe’ and seek out familiar consciousness patterns, it could track individuals through time, space, and possible realities.
T: Does the feeling of AI searching for You ceased?
C: Yes, ever since October 2010.
T: How did You learn about that lifetime? Via hypnotic regression or some other way?
C: That past-lifetime-in-a-possible-future-from-now was with me since my earliest memories. At five years of age, I remember that I was keenly aware of being sought after by a central artificial intelligence from that past-life-in-the-future, so I practiced the fine art of falling asleep ‘backwards,’ tracing a backward progression of thoughts - thinking backwards in time. This is something akin to the art of walking upstream in a creek to not leave footprints, but in my case, these were “thought prints” I was not leaving. Much of the reason I missed being in-between lives, in the place filled with love I remember so clearly before I was born, is that I felt I could still use some R&R ‘down time’ to recuperate after what had been a rather traumatic experience in that past lifetime for me. Apparently, I needed to come into this lifetime with quite a bit of the feelings from that lifetime intact, to provide me with focused interest in the fields of consciousness and metaphysics, and a passion for helping people awaken to their innate ability to shift reality with thoughts and feelings.
T: Would You elaborate on why Axiogenesis by Nicholas Rescher is among Your ‘all-time favorite books’?
C: At this juncture in history in which physicists seek to unify the physics of the very large with physics of the very small, and theories for reality involving consciousness abound, I’m refreshed and invigorated to read a thoughtful treatise that lays the cognitive framework by which we can place such questions and possibilities in best perspective. Rescher addresses the subject of intelligent design from a logical, philosophical perspective, inviting readers to thoughtfully consider some of the biggest metaphysical questions.
Axiogenesis addresses the philosophy behind what is sometimes popularly referred to as the “fine-tuned universe” which brings attention to the fact that our planet and universe is astonishingly well-suited for life. Odds against our world coming into existence completely at random appear to be statistically improbable, leading some current scientists to suggest our universe may exist in a multiverse. Axiogenesis presents a complete philosophical framework for intelligent consideration of why anything exists at all, citing Plato and Leibnitz as early proponents of optimalism.
Rescher answers G.W. Leibniz’s question, “Why is there anything at all?” which seeks an ultimate explanation from the realm of possibilities, in which various theoretical possibilities are ruled out until at last only one privileged alternative remains. And in this quest to answer the ultimate hard question, Rescher begins Axiogenesis by explaining that what we are truly seeking is nothing less than an explanation for the emergence of a domain of existents from an existentially empty realm of a nonempty world.
A quest for ultimate answers demands holism, and the basic tenet of optimalism is such that the prevailing world order is the best that can be actualized, and the best possible order exists because that’s for the best. There is admittedly a kind of self-validation at work here, yet that is precisely what makes sense in a world where Nature is clearly the great optimizer, dealing in superlatives so that maximum effects are achieved with minimum energy.
Rescher’s style of writing is concise, clear, and entertaining, including such lively quotes as King Alfonzo X’s remark when studying the Plolemaic system of astronomy, “If the Lord Almighty had consulted me before embarking on his creation, I would have recommended something simpler.” I especially enjoyed reading quotes from many of the philosophers and scientists Rescher references in Axiogenesis, including: Plato, Leibniz, and Gödel.
In an optimal world, Axiogenesis would be required reading for all scientists, in order that the real “hard problem” of why there is anything at all gets the proper attention it deserves, with an answer that finds increasing relevance as we enter the Quantum Age.
T: Some people still consider the knowledge of Your books as pseudoscience. How would You address such an interpretation?
C: The topics I’ve dedicated my life’s work to are indeed “fringe” rather than mainstream. To anyone noticing this aspect, I’d add that all of our greatest breakthroughs and discoveries occur at the “fringes,” rather than the mainstream. I feel grateful to be sharing information that can quite possibly revolutionize our view of ourselves and the cosmos.
T: Thanks to You I’ve learned about wonderful books such as Life on the Edge: The Coming of Age of Quantum Biology (Johnjoe McFadden and Jim Al-Khalili), Quantum Models of Cognition and Decision (Jerome R. Busemeyer and Peter D. Bruza), Axiogenesis (Nicholas Rescher), Traveling To Parallel Universes (Trish LeSage), Karate-Do: My Way of Life (Gichin Funakoshi), Bare-Bones Meditation, Waking Up from the Story of My Life. (Joan Tollifson) and so many more. You usually recommend books that are thought-provoking and life-changing. It is particularly interesting, therefore, which three books out of all You’ve read You’d choose to take on a desert island - and why those particular ones? :)
C: Wow, that’s a poser of a question! I truly treasure so many books, and it’s tough to only choose three. I’ve taken some road trips with a suitcase packed full of books, savoring the opportunity to camp out in the woods - with some of my favorite books! Well, here are three I’d choose for a hypothetical desert island:
Time, Space, and Knowledge by Tarthang Tulku.
I am transported deeper into the true state of reality by reading this book, and doing its exercises, than by any other book I’ve ever read. Physicist George Weissmann and I were stunned to both discover how highly we value this book that we were inspired to co-author a physics paper together in 2017, “The Quantum Paradigm and Challenging the Objectivity Assumption”.
Born Aware by Diane Brandon.
I feel close to a sense of divine source / oneness / Tao / God when reading this book - I feel like I’m in heaven. It’s truly uplifting and inspirational.
The Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot.
I’ve read The Holographic Universe often, and have gained new insights into the nature of consciousness and reality from its riches every time. I consider it to be author Michael Talbot’s most important work, as well as one of the best books ever written on the subject of so-called paranormal phenomenon.
T: Could You explain why it is important to ask oneself “How good can it get?” even if we don’t know the answer?
C: We are seeing evidence in quantum physics experiments, such as those reported in papers in 2019 by Brukner and colleagues, that the perspective of observers can make a difference in what they observe, even at the same place and time. We see evidence in our personal lives that our perspective can - and does - make a remarkable difference in how we experience each day, and we can test this ourselves. By asking (and truly needing to know), “How GOOD can it get?!?” we choose to view reality through an optimistic perspective. The Cosmos is constantly communicating with us, and the questions we ask - even those not spoken out loud - make all the difference.
T: Do You mean that the positive effect, “the answer” - is therefore inevitable?
C: Yes, the positive effect - the answer - corresponds to the chosen perspective of each observer.
Catchphrase or a Power Sentence?
Dear Reader,
This concept of asking oneself such an “inconspicuous” question while it may be in fact much more influential on our life than we could have thought, drawn my attention. I found intriguing why so much emphasis has been put on such a little practice, which seemed to be just another affirmation. Here You are a few more quotes from Cynthia’s various videos, which may help You to grasp the true power of this “inconspicuous thing”. Some parts are bold (by me) to distinguish what I find the most key and touching.
“I recommend (...) in every situation, always ask, ‘How good can it get?’ And if you can’t think of what the answer might be, recognize that you are turning it over to imagination, inviting a conversation with the universe.” (from “Master the Art of Becoming Resilient”)
“(...) always asking ‘How good can it get?’ and inviting the universe to show you. Keep an open heart and an open mind to see how good can it get.” (from “See What is Truly Real”)
“(...) there is something helping to show the way, as you keep asking, ‘How good can it get?’ leaving it open to interpretation, knowing that we humans sometimes think we’re seeing the right thing, but there might be something better. And be prepared to be totally astonished at seeing just how good it can get.” (from “The Value of Faith”)
“(...) this idea [by Henry Stapp, who was a physicist at UC Berkeley] that you can ask Nature questions and get answers (...) the Quantum Zeno Effect provides us with the idea that the answers follow your questions, but by posing the questions fast enough, you can make the answers agree with what the questions are that you ask. And so this is a way of locking in a desired answer. So once you start asking, ‘How good can it get?’ you can stay on course, keep that idea.” (from “How to Prepare for Jedi VS Empire Bots”)
“(...) we can all keep asking, ‘How good can it get?’ (then) we can absolutely start seeing exactly that.” (from “Sudden Changes, Quantum Jumps”)
“(...) keep asking that question, ‘How good can it get?’ no matter what is happening right now. Anticipate that things can always get better. Let your imagination take you there. Let your subconscious start finding ways to work with the entirety of all reality in this one mind, many worlds experience that we’re all sharing, and find out for yourself.” (from “Quantum Physics with Deepak Chopra and Sugar Ray Leonard”)
“(...) when we ask a question like the one I love to ask: ‘How good can it get?’ we can perhaps transform seemingly impossible situations, and make our way through insurmountable seeming problems.” (from “Physics Experiment Challenges Objective Reality”)
“What happens when you start identifying with pure consciousness is that you can ask that question I love so much, ‘How good can it get?,’ and you can be transported to new realities that you never, ever, would have guessed existed including entirely different alternate histories that you hadn’t previously been aware of (...).” (from “Quantum Jumping and Manifesting with Law of Attraction”)
And now, back to the interview... :)
T: In the “Thriving in the time of coronavirus” video You’ve said that:
“(...) there are such things as multiple timelines so just like that parable you’ve heard about which wolf do you feed you want to choose which timelines you support - pick the one that feels right to you if you are experiencing many of them (...).”
What those timelines are about, how You could describe them?
C: The possible realities that feel best to me are those imbued with myself and others being humble, kind, loving, and respectful. I truly love these high-vibratory feelings, and can feel in my heart when they are present in myself and those around me. The possible realities that come from such a perspective and viewpoint are thus my favorites, and I choose them based on how they emotionally and energetically feel.
T: How to support the reality one desires for it to flourish?
C: It’s all about the basics here - meaning that the best way to support desired realities is to be fully invested in them, with the fullness and totality of your being. When what we need is also what we love and what we want, we’ll experience that desired reality to be truly flourishing.
T: Would You be willing to elaborate on Your experience with organizing various conferences? How it all started, what is the motivation - and how You’re finding Yourself in that role?
C: I got involved planning conferences for Foundations of Mind, when we were based in the San Francisco bay area, beginning in 2014. I was impressed by the work of creator and founder of Foundations of Mind, Sean O’Nuallain, and shared his dream of creating a venue where scientific papers on the topic of consciousness and quantum physics could be shared and published. I published highlights from the FOM conferences between 2015 and 2018 that I helped organize, and presented at.
- FOM 2: Reparsing Nature,
- FOM 3: Science as if Being Mattered,
- FOM 4: Quantum Mechanics Meets Neuroscience,
- FOM 5: The New AI Scare;
In the past couple of years, I’ve helped form a new nonprofit 501(c)3 organization, International Mandela Effect Conference (IMEC), together with Christopher Anatra, Jerry Hicks, Shane Robinson, and Kimberly-Lynn Hanson with a shared mission to inspire, empower, and unify all curious observers. We’ve conducted two conferences; the first happened in Ketchum, Idaho in November 2019, and the second happened free, online, in summer 2020. All talks were posted on our YouTube channel here.
T: When You’ve mentioned Yours and Sean O’Nuallain’s initiative of Foundations of Mind - “a venue where scientific papers on the topic of consciousness and quantum physics could be shared and published” - it reminds me of Society for Scientific Exploration - a place which allows scientists and academics to share their works which have been ostracized from the interest of the mainstream science. Are You familiar with that organization?
C: Yes, I am familiar with the Society for Scientific Exploration, though I’ve not (yet!) attended one of their events.
“There are handful of people who were interested in some of these less popular areas, areas that they were all well credentialed scientists and academics, they all had an established field of expertise, but they all had an interest in some area that was outside the box and they were getting frustrated cause they couldn’t publish, they couldn’t present it at professional meetings, they couldn’t talk to their colleagues about it. (...) Maybe 1980 -81 or something like that they decided to create their own professional society, Society for Scientific Exploration. (...) It’s a forum where people can come and give their presentations about their work and these very strange fields (...).” (Brenda Dunne, from the interview by Jeffrey Mishlove)
T: It was a very nice surprise to listen to You playing guitar and singing Karen Kimball’s song. Did You write any other songs?
C: I’ve written other songs, but not recorded them.
Reality Shifts and Quantum Jumps.
T: You wrote:
“I started thinking and talking about reality shifts in 1997 when I noticed some startling changes in which real physical objects and people changed, and I felt a burning need to discuss this with my friends and understand what was going on.” (Reality Shifts)
Do You remember what exactly were those experiences about? Which particular examples of reality shifts? You bring out many such things in the book, I’d like to know which (of those, I suppose) were the ones that, gathered together, became ‘the last straw’ drawing Your attention to the phenomenon as such at the time.
C: All of the examples shared in my book, Reality Shifts, are from the early days of my experiences with these startling changes. I felt the classically conditioned part of my mind reacting with shock and disbelief to what I was observing, as I witnessed such things as instantaneous healing, and objects teleporting and being instantaneously healed or transformed.
The ‘last straw’ was the time I witnessed a ‘new-to-me’ old giant concrete sun dial sculpture at the Berkeley Marina with two friends who were colleagues of mine from the banking world. The combination of witnessing such a seemingly impossible shift in reality with two of the people who society would consider to be completely sane, reliable, and high-level banking executives left me no further room for my rational mind to explain this away as ‘just my imagination,’ or ‘surely I must be mistaken.’ I felt extraordinary reassurance that this phenomenon was completely 100% real, thanks to witnessing it with such reliable witnesses - and in that moment I realized that now that I was certain this was a real phenomenon, I had a responsibility to share this knowledge with the world.
T: Before the day Your friends saw the sundial sculpture for the first time, what did You think about the reason why it is present only when You are alone?
C: When I was first witnessing reality shifts, most of the time I was experiencing them by myself. I remembered that when I was very young, I had once noticed as I looked out our living room window at rain falling in the garden outside that if I thought, “stop, rain,” then the rain would stop. When I thought, “start, rain,” the rain would start falling again. I was very excited to share this with my mother, so I ran to tell her and show her - but when I pointed out the window with her, I noticed the rain did not stop and start when I thought it any more. It occurred to me that perhaps it is more likely to observe real-time changes in reality when I was alone, than when I was with other people - even though I had not given the subject much thought for decades. It seemed to me that in order for me to see reality shifts with other people, they would have to be open-minded regarding allowing the possibility for such things to happen. I therefore did not expect that I would be able to witness reality shifts with just anyone, nor did I expect that I would frequently have the benefit of sharing reality shift experiences with others. Based on what I’d experienced with my mother at a young age, I learned that most people do not believe that our minds can so readily influence matter, and I had seen how people’s beliefs and assumptions about the natural world can heavily influence what they experience.
T: Did Ashes ever show up again since You’ve seen him alive again, as described in the book? I was wondering did Kathryn has a similar experience, maybe at some other time?
C: Ashes showed up that first time (after I heard he was dead) back in the 1980s, and he continued showing up for a while. This was now decades ago, and I don’t live on Cedar Street any more. I did see Ashes around many times after his astonishing-to-me return. And I did not ask Kathryn if she had a similar experience - please keep in mind this was my first Alive Again experience, so I barely even had a mental frame for how to talk to people about it. I definitely did not sense that Kathryn even noticed anything was different. And my husband only acknowledged things seemed weird about Ashes being alive again when I raised the subject and asked him about it. And by the way, this is often a typical reaction when people attempt to discuss examples of reality shifts and Mandela Effects with others.
T: On Your blog You mention:
“(...) first nations peoples have long described oral histories about how these same sorts of things (so-called “Mandela Effect”) have been happening since the dawn of time.”
Could You please elaborate on Mandela Effect reported through first nations peoples’ oral histories?
C: The world’s first people worked with shaman, who were healers for their communities, and who also at times helped ensure good weather, and favorable hunting conditions. In these early times, most all of the times that the people in a community felt they had a good shaman, it was because they witnessed first-hand that changes in the weather, or behaviors of animals or crops had changed in a noticeable way. In similar fashion, seemingly miraculous healing has been reported to have occurred.
T: There are many examples of reality shifts or Mandela Effects in which it seems there is no trace of a remembered reality but the sole memories. What are Your thoughts, however, on experiences in which one does not have a conscious recollection of some period of their past which still exists but there is total lack of memories of it, sometimes even reaching a point of 100% certainty that the person has not experienced particular things from the past, although all the signs seem to imply the opposite?
C: I have heard from people of such experiences of missing memories that they typically experience in the form of what they might refer to as “time jumps,” as in an experience shared in the October 2002 issue of RealityShifters, “the Tuesday that never was”,
There are a variety of different kinds of time jumps, which I summarize on this page of the RealityShifters site.
T: On Your blog You wrote:
“The more charged the emotions remain, the harder it is for people to successfully switch realities (...).”
Does it mean that we should rather develop an emotional bond with our desires/desired reality, letting go all the unpleasant emotions linked to the current one?
C: The situation seems more to me a matter of gradually developed mastery, working with a skill of reality shifting that is as natural to us as breathing. And just as yogi masters, Ki Gong masters, and martial arts masters can develop amazing skills with such a simple thing as breathing, so too can we develop increasingly skillful talent for reality shifting. In the case of attaining desired shifts, a great deal has to do with how well aligned we are with all levels of ourselves, and this includes emotional levels of self (such as gut feelings, and heartfelt feelings). Emotions have benefit to us, such that I cannot in good conscience advise people let go of all unpleasant emotions without having learned what needed to be understood from them first. And if we find ourselves forcefully pushing ourselves to develop emotional bonds that we don’t genuinely feel, we won’t get the best results, either. So the process I am describing has much more in common with choosing a path of self improvement like a spiritual path, and striving to constantly learn about oneself every step of the way.
T: On Your blog You wrote:
“(...) emotions are a lot like keys that unlock certain doors (realities), and often they also hold us in particular realities, keeping us involved in situations and experiences that match the way we feel – even if those feelings are unpleasant.”
What advice would You give on how to get rid of this obstacle?
C: My best advice for how to free oneself from ‘getting emotionally stuck’ and thus sticking in particular realities is to first start practicing love and gratitude on a regular basis. Making a daily point to “say grace” before meals and actually feel thankful is one good way to practice this, as is keeping a gratitude journal, as is thanking everyone you interact with with genuine, heartfelt appreciation for what you most appreciate about them. There are higher levels above gratitude in which it’s possible to see everyone and everything with so much reverence that miracles can be seen to be happening everywhere.
T: In our correspondence You’ve stated something intriguing:
“(...) one moment identifying with being a human being having a human experience in a body that is a given gender, age, height and weight and so forth. And the next moment, we can identify with being pure consciousness that is able to observe what our mind is thinking and our body is feeling. Simply going back and forth between these two in rapid succession can be enough to stimulate some instantaneous reality shifts, where we can witness changes in our surroundings quite often.”
Would You tell why is it so?
C: Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz says about consciousness that, in order to be conscious of a first-order perception, I must additionally possess a second-order perception of that first-order perception. For example, in order to be conscious of the glass of water in front of me, I must not only perceive the glass of water, but I must also perceive my perception of the glass of water.
The process of going back and forth between levels of self awareness brings us to yet a higher level of perception, which can feel like awakening to a much more complete sense of awareness of who we truly are. And with that more complete sense of awareness, we naturally become better internally aligned within ourselves, and with the Cosmos - and in such a state, we can begin to witness how our thoughts and feelings literally transform the physical world.
“However intense my experience, I am conscious of the presence and criticism of a part of me, which, as it were, is not a part of me, but spectator, sharing no experience, but taking note of it; and that is no more I than it is you. When the play (...) is over, the spectator goes his way. It was a kind of fiction, a work of the imagination only, so far as he was concerned.” (Henry David Thoreau, Walden)
T: If I get it right (please correct me if I’m wrong), in Your opinion there should be increasing number of recognized quantum-related phenomena (quantum entanglement, quantum teleportation, quantum tunneling, etc.), due to more people acknowledging that such things are possible and occur.
C: I expect that as our human collective awareness of the quantum properties of Nature becomes more widespread, and as our technology provides us with continued and improving abilities to communicate quickly with others to communicate about such things, we will increasingly realize that we are living in a participatory universe. Physicist John Archibald Wheeler popularized the idea of this being a participatory universe, as a way of recognizing the importance of the observer’s role in quantum physics to determine what the observer sees, based on the questions and choices the observer makes.
T: If, however, people in general will accept the concept as a natural part of their life - how could it influence our relationships? Quantum worldview gives us a wider perspective in which, for example, there are many You’s instead of one single Cynthia Sue Larson. And now, if I would like to become Your friend - who is the person I’m thinking about? How can I be sure that You from tomorrow will be the same version of You with whom yesterday we became friends? :) (apart from our constant growth which takes place everyday anyway)
C: The concept of our having ‘many selves’ is an idea that has been around for some time, and one that we intuitively recognize as being the way things truly are. We know, for example, that our ‘business self’ is not the same as our ‘friend self’ or our ‘parent self.’ Each role we play brings out completely different personality characteristics in us - and we can see evidence in well-documented cases of “multiple personality” people that some personalities have allergies, and others don’t, for example. Each of us can perhaps best be recognized as a multitude of selves, that hopefully can become organized positively as a Symphony of Selves, such as described in the new book coming out this year by authors Fadiman & Gruber.
With regard to how to be certain that each of us is relating with particular aspects of others, there is no way to have such certainty; what is required of each of us is to become more kind, more compassionate, and more capable of accepting others however they currently are showing up in this particular version of this moment here and now.
“(...) people feel that there’s only one version of themselves like you’re just one thing and it’s not true - like there’s different versions of us and I learned this over time because I would hear people say ‘I’m just gonna be myself’ and I always wonder like what is my self and I really didn’t understand this. It was when I became a polygraph examiner I became an interrogator for the US Secret Service and then I would interview so many people like hundreds of people would come through the door and I learned that I couldn’t be one thing with everybody and that people respond to different things and need different things from you and so some people needed a more sensitive version of me, sometimes I needed to bring out a more authoritative version of me, but you assess people and you realize ‘who’s my audience’ and what’s gonna resonate best with this audience, but it’s still authentic, it’s still me (...).” (Evy Poumpouras, “Secret Service agent reveals the surprising steps to influence anyone”)
Dear Reader,
Asking that question, however, I was thinking rather about multitude of You’s occupying various realities within multiverse. The line of reasoning is simple: if there are realities within multiverse which are occupied by various versions of ourselves, then by travelling through those realities (switching them/“quantum jumping”) we can experience both various versions of ourselves and other people as well. The key question here is: what about the true identity of a person? How to recognize who is who, really?
I think a good idea here may be to redefine our comprehension of identity, to take it “a level higher” than before. Here You are an excerpt from Q&A from the The Mandela-Affected Hero’s Journey, which nicely addresses the matter:
question: If my reality, if I bounced over from here to the right over there - is this still my wife?, is this still my friend?, are they the same people or am I in a whole new realm?
answer (by Cynthia Sue Larson): I was talking about this living with feet in two worlds: you’re both this conscience conscious sentient being aware of your awareness and then you’re this physical animal that’s kind of afraid to die and you don’t want to get sick and you know we got all these ego issues and we’re the ones that get fearful and scared of things. Your infinite eternal self is not like that, so (...) once you’ve got that and you recognize ‘Okay, we all have that infinite eternal consciousness’ then you can feel safe knowing that you, the people that you really love, you’re loving them on that infinite eternal basis, you are loving them forever and that’s what real love is: if you’re only loving them because they have money or they’re beautiful or they’re young. well. you know this is not what we learn from a spiritual path (...). We need to look deeper and feel deeper and know for sure like ‘This is the person I love and maybe they’ve changed a little bit but I’m gonna roll with it and see where that goes and have faith.’
the questioner: I’m just looking at it as like a frequency of a radio that I’ve just tuned into and maybe I’m tuning into reality B, but A and C are still there - they’re just not as sharply focused; so I’ve looked at the people as being very similar in a sense: I’ve tuned in to person B, but A and C are still there. they’re not gone, they’re just I’m tuning in to this one right here, that’s focused like that. and all the aspects of my wife, my friend, my coworker, all aspects of them in every version of reality is still them; I’m just zoning into this part of them. You’re seeing a piece that physical manifestation is just the tiny, it’s the tip of the iceberg. so that eternal self, that’s the bigger and that in a larger sense they are, and in a larger sense they’re still there, you can’t lose them.
T: Do You think that we ‘attract’ not only certain people but, being more precise, certain versions of them (many worlds = many You’s)? (by ‘versions’ now I don’t mean the concept rendered within Symphony of Selves)
C: Yes, we can become entangled / connected with all those who we truly love - including various versions of ourselves.
Physics.
T: In the interview with Stuart Hameroff on the Orchestrated Objective Reduction theory I find especially interesting the statement saying that “protoconscious events are happening in the table, in the air, in the coffee cup all the time.” Could You please explain in as least physical as possible manner :) - how it is possible for those events to happen - and how the consciousness may arise out of protoconsciousness?
C: We do not yet have an agreed-upon working model of how consciousness may arise out of protoconsciousness. I tend toward a view that mind exists beyond and outside of physical matter, so from that perspective, it is simpler to grasp that consciousness is always naturally ‘arising’ at its own natural rate of progression.
T: The way I perceive consciousness is as something which exists alongside matter, space and time - in an independent manner, in which You could say that it infuses this reality rather than origins from it.
I much like a metaphor of a radio broadcast (consciousness) and radio sets (e.g., human bodies) which pick up on what has been broadcasted. Something like that:
“Think of the body like an antenna. The part you humans call ’soul’, ’personality’, ’conscience’, It’s like a frequency picked up by the body.” (from the TV series Andromeda)
There is no reason, however, for which we should confine consciousness to one particular kind of ‘antenna’. I think that it’s more universal, and one may pick it up to a degree which depends on their means. Like in case of wireless Internet: suppose You have 20Mb/s wireless Internet in Your house, but Your smartphone can technically operate the speed up to 5Mb/s, while Your laptop may handle 15Mb/s. The full-speed Internet is always “out there” - but the results depend specifically on “the device”. I perceive human form as just another “device”.
Now, the Orchestrated Objective Reduction theory rings a bell, when it comes to perceiving animated and inanimate matter as potential ‘consciousness antennas’ - and this is the reason I find it worth attention: because thanks to this we can be closer to finally acknowledge that, indeed, everything can “have” (be equipped with) its own awareness, consciousness - although to a various degree.
What do You think about that concept, i.e., perceiving everything as equipped with consciousness? I still remember one of Your posts on plants, which can communicate and even exchange knowledge with one another, and even play music... so much more to explore in this field - but couldn’t this lead us to recognizing that the consciousness phenomenon may be much more universal and present (propagated) than we could have thought?
C: While I appreciate the elegance of the Orchestrated Objective Reduction (OOR) theory, my research into the field of reality shifts, quantum jumps and the Mandela Effect provide me with an ever-growing body of evidence to suggest that much of the way consciousness operates is well beyond any simple physical models we may come across. I say this because I and others experience such things as: instantaneous healing of broken bones, cancer, burns, and open wounds; instantaneously improved positioning of human organs (such as kidneys and heart) in our bodies that indicate evolutionary upgrades can and do occur for billions of people across the planet at once; sudden bursts of knowing material we’ve never studied, or becoming instantly gifted at some skill. In all these cases, there’s not necessarily evidence of any particular mechanism such as OOR at work - especially in the global Mandela Effect / worldwide reality shift cases, such as the one where nobody is vulnerable any more to what used to be potentially lethal “kidney punches,” for example. What all this suggests to me is that the founding fathers of quantum physics were on the right track when noting as Max Planck once said:
“I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.” (Max Planck, The Observer, 25 January 1931)
T: Speaking of “instantaneously improved positioning of human organs (such as kidneys and heart) in our bodies that indicate evolutionary upgrades” - how the new position of heart could be better than the previous one?
C: With regard to the heart now being more centrally located in the chest, it’s now possible to do blood pressure readings on either arm equally reliably well. On a more intuitive level, there is now a sense of our heart being evenly accessible either by our intuitive, receptive side and also by our rational, active side of ourselves. This kind of balance could be viewed as a subtle indication of balance returning to people respecting imaginal ways of knowing that have been disrespected, put down, and ignored for the past several centuries.
T: Do You know about any other examples of such “universal” and widespread improvements of human species physical form?
C: Yes, there are numerous positive body changes in addition to heart and kidneys. The “New Golden Age” website documents a number of them, including these positive changes to the human skeleton.
“Changes in human anatomy are the best place to start if you want to become aware of the improvements the Mandela Effect changes have made to our world and our lives. Many of the changes seem random or ambivalent, but the changes to our body almost without exception are clearly improvements. You’ll find you’re able to do more with your body than you ever could before (more endurance, more flexibility), and you’re less vulnerable to injuries.” (“New Golden Age”)
T: What do You think about the approach of acknowledging that literally everything has consciousness? Is that approach a part of Your everyday outlook toward life?
C: I see there is wisdom in acknowledging that consciousness is fundamental, and therefore all material ‘things’ and living beings are formed through consciousness, and connected with it.
T: In Your books You share examples of the nature itself acting quantum. One of the most fascinating I find plants being extremely more efficient in obtaining light energy than human-made photovoltaic cells (95% vs 20% efficiency!), thanks to so-called quantum coherence. You’ve described this process as follows:
“What appears to be happening is that electrons take advantage of the fact that energy can move not just in the material form, but in pure energy form, too, and entire systems of molecules can become entangled to allow the formation of a coherent wave that tries out different pathways simultaneously, until the most efficient route is very quickly determined.” (Quantum Jumps)
I’d like to ask about the “entire systems of molecules can become entangled” - are there plant’s molecules entangled with... each other - or with electrons? What makes the decision? A plant’s molecules, once they have “talked” with electrons via entanglement?
C: When it comes to “What is becoming entangled?” this involves the matter of what levels of consciousness are the operative causal forces at work. I do not know of any experiments or research that yet can determine which levels of consciousness are entangled together in which ways, and making decisions amongst what other levels of consciousness within a plant, or system of plants, or indeed even an ecosystem including plants and animals. Biologist Rupert Sheldrake has done some excellent work involving the theory of morphogenic fields, which indicate there quite likely are many more levels and factors involved than most scientists have so far properly accounted for.
T: I’m trying to understand is the plant the one which “explores” all the paths and then chooses the optimal one?
C: The matter of “conscious agent” is essential to most quantum interpretations, yet there is not yet any agreement on who conscious agents might be. My own personal take on it is that each of us is operating more than just one level of conscious agency; we have levels of self that correspond with levels of perception, perceptual awareness, and awareness of that awareness. Each higher order level of conscious self activates a higher state of consciousness.
T: Or to put it other way: how do scientists actually know that plants do this quantum way?
C: The biologist JohnJoe McFadden asserted that he believed many biological processes to be fundamentally quantum. MIT scientist Seth Lloyd, hearing this assertion, stated that this could be quite easily determined. Seth proposed that if, as JohnJoe suggested, plants were utilizing, for example, a “quantum random walk” in the way that energy from photons was being transported from where it hit the leaf to where the energy was to be stored, such a quantum random walk methodology could easily be modeled, and comparisons made to see if the same levels of efficiency were obtained. Much to Seth Lloyd’s surprise, the computer model indeed did match the remarkable levels of efficiency being observed in plant photosynthesis, which essentially proved JohnJoe McFadden’s point: quantum processes definitely are happening in warm, wet, “noisy” biological environments.
T: Have You considered that quantum jumps actually may occur literally all the time, creating the illusion of movement, the illusion of “happening”? I picture reality consisting of endless and still ‘frames’ (like frames of a video) which then may be ‘played’ by consciousness, therefore creating an impression of time, movement » happening. In such a depiction one is constantly “jumping” - although very fast - from one single frame to another.
C: I do consider that quantum jumps are the natural way and process by which consciousness moves from one physical reality to the next, much like jumping from stone to stone when crossing a stream or river. I was once setting up a campsite at sunset that required that I carry my tent and bags across a stream, and I suddenly realized just how precarious the whole situation was. I found myself going to a higher state of conscious awareness in order to best assure success and safety, as night began to fall, and the slippery, mossy rocks seemed less secure.
I just this week came across the experience that physicist David Bohm describes, when he was crossing a stream by a series of stones, and he realized that the only way to succeed in safe crossing is to maintain continuous movement. Bohm sometimes mentioned this example as one way he viewed consciousness as flowing movement. While this is part of Bohm’s realization of the wholeness of nature, and I agree with the sense of consciousness being flowing, there is also the experience as we touch and step on each stone that we are smoothly moving from one physical reality to the next, to the next.
So yes, I would agree that there does seem to exist a kind of continuous flow to our experience of consciousness, while we also experience a series of physical realities, like the frames you describe, like stepping stones.
Dear Reader,
If You’d like to dive into more in-depth papers and articles by Cynthia, scroll this page down a little and You’ll find them there :) . And if You’d like to watch Cynthia’s TV appearances - here You are :) !
